La grieta volvió a ser el método para hacer política. Poco duró ese acuerdo o sensación de unidad nacional que parecía prometer la pandemia del Covid-19 a principios de este 2020. Atrás quedaron los consensos políticos, las mesas de diálogo. La política de la “discordia” volvió a imponerse en Argentina sobre una agenda sanitaria que cada día que pasa parece más desgastada. Con los números de contagios por Covid en ascenso, una economía devastada, conflictividad social creciente, y una oposición que busca en las marchas su capital político de cara a las legislativas de 2021; la Argentina transita un panorama donde el único pico que se conoce es el pico de la incertidumbre.
En diálogo con Revista BIFE, el histórico dirigente de la Unión Cívica Radical (UCR) y actual diputado provincial, Francisco Torroba, revindicó al “diálogo” como la única manera de sacar al país adelante, y habló sobre el rol de la oposición en la actualidad, la reforma judicial, y el futuro de la relación del radicalismo con el PRO en la provincia. Al final dio sus impresiones sobre la visita de los ministros de Seguridad y Derechos Humanos a la Legislatura respecto a la violencia policial desplegada durante la cuarentena en La Pampa.
Hay que tener coraje para estar al frente de un proceso de diálogo en este país”
Mucho se ha hablado de las oposiciones en Argentina: aquella sin responsabilidad ejecutiva – los llamados “irresponsables”- y quienes a pesar de las ideologías, han tenido que gestionar en medio de la pandemia– los “responsables”- . El rol de la oposición en La Pampa– más precisamente de la UCR– ha sido de acompañar cada decisión del Poder Ejecutivo sobre todo en temas vinculados a la gestión de la pandemia en el Comité de Crisis.
“Nosotros hemos acompañado al gobierno provincial en la toma de decisiones por la pandemia para que el costo político no sea sólo del gobernador y los intendentes”, aseguró el jefe de bloque de la UCR, Francisco Torroba, quién observa una Argentina sin un rumbo, sin diálogo, con mezquindades políticas y con liderazgos negativos. “El presidente Alberto Fernández recibió una economía precaria de Mauricio Macri, pero lleva 8 meses gobernando y no conocemos el plan económico. Macri recibió una herencia delicada de Cristina Kirchner y nunca tuvo un plan económico claro. Hace 70 años que la Argentina no crece, nadie tuvo un plan”, apuntó.
–¿Cree que el problema en Argentina es la falta de acuerdos básicos y comunes para enfrentar los problemas?
Hoy quién está dispuesto a dialogar es un valiente. Escuchar al otro en un momento donde nadie escucha a nadie hace falta. Fanáticos e intolerantes hay en todos los espacios políticos. Por eso digo que hay que tener coraje para estar al frente de un proceso de diálogo en este país, pero no le veo otra salida. Hoy la situación de Argentina es dramática.
–¿Pero profundizar la grieta no es el principal negocio de la política hoy, para bien o para mal?
Si, tiene réditos electorales pero se perjudica el país. El país no tiene futuro con la profundización de la grieta. Estoy convencido que las naciones que salieron adelante fueron con objetivos comunes. En el año 83’ Raúl Alfonsín convenció a los argentinos que más allá de las banderas políticas, arriba estaba el país y la necesidad de instalar la democracia. Esto significa que el pensamiento único, creer tener la verdad absoluta, la intolerancia, no lleva a ningún lado.
Además, la falta de un diálogo en política siempre es el camino más fácil. La pregunta es, ¿la Argentina va a salir con la profundización de la grieta? No. ¿Va a ver inversiones con la grieta? No. ¿Si no hay inversiones va a haber empleo? No. ¿Si no hay generación de empleo no va haber pobreza? No. Entonces, si no nos podemos poner de acuerdo y las cosas se hacen a los empujones, no hay camino. Cuando las grietas se profundizan quienes más se desgastan son quienes están en los cargos ejecutivos.
–Referentes de su espacio (Ernesto Sanz) creen que hoy la oposición representa a un 50% de la sociedad producto del crecimiento del descontento: ¿Usted observa lo mismo?
El descontento existe como consecuencia de la economía. La crisis no es consecuencia de la herencia de Macri, de la pandemia, la falta de inversiones; tampoco es toda culpa de Alberto Fernández. Somos un país que nos hemos pasado la vida confrontando a lo largo de su historia. La prioridad debería ser poner en marcha a la Argentina después de la pandemia que no va a ser tarea fácil. Por eso digo, que es necesario un gobierno de coalición y de unidad nacional. Ahora, si la dirigencia política sigue echando leña al fuego y entramos en la chicana electoral antes de tiempo vamos a profundizar la crisis.
El pensamiento único, creer tener la verdad absoluta, la intolerancia, no lleva a ningún lado”
(A nivel nacional parece que la luna de miel que gozaba el gobierno terminó abruptamente. En tanto que las encuestas demuestran que el presidente Alberto Fernández fue perdiendo aquella imagen positiva que supo alcanzar en el mes de marzo. Según los datos de septiembre de la consultora D’Alessio IROL – Berensztein, Alberto pasó del 61% de marzo al 47%)
(La discusión por la reforma judicial aceleró aún más los ánimos de una oposición que quiere tomar protagonismo, mientras el gobierno acusa de “irresponsables”. En este sentido, la oposición parece querer revitalizarse después de la derrota electoral, y sobre todo, con elecciones legislativas por delante que sería como muchos dicen: el primer examen del gobierno. Existe una fuerte interna entre los dirigentes “más duros” como Mario Negri o Adolfo Cornejo- reelecto presidente de la Comisión Nacional de la Unión Cívica Radical- y quienes quieren despegarse del liderazgo de Mauricio Macri y Cambiemos en el futuro próximo).
Si la dirigencia política sigue echando leña al fuego y entramos en la chicana electoral antes de tiempo vamos a profundizar la crisis”
–¿Cree que el gobierno Nacional, como dicen desde la oposición, se “apresuró” al tratar la reforma judicial en medio de la pandemia?
La reforma judicial es la reforma de la justicia para la política. Creo que el país tiene muchos problemas más importantes como la caída de la actividad económica, la pobreza, la inflación, el FMI, reactivar el mercado de capitales, recomponer el sistema bi-monetario que tenemos; somos un país que no respeta los contratos y nadie cree en Argentina. Tenemos por delante la tarea de generar empleo y terminar con la pobreza. Entonces, ¿por qué no nos concentramos en lo que podemos estar de acuerdo para salir adelante? Además, más allá de compartir aspectos de la reforma, me parece que no corresponde en el orden de prioridades.
Cuando Raúl Alfonsín ganó las elecciones de 1983, le ofreció presidir la Corte Suprema de Justicia Italo Luder (PJ), su principal contrincante en la campaña electoral. Entonces, ¿por qué no revisamos las cosas del pasado que estuvieron bien? Las buenas ideas no siempre la tienen las mayorías. Hay pequeñas minorías que tienen grandes ideas. En definitiva, esta es la reforma de justicia para la política. Al final todo sirve para profundizar la grieta.
–En el terreno provincial, como referente de la UCR pampeana, ¿crees que se mantendrá la alianza con el PRO de cara a las próximas elecciones?
Como dije anteriormente, creo en la necesidad del diálogo. Acá el tema es cómo se arman las coaliciones: no se puede cuando no hay programas económicos y de gobierno. El problema del radicalismo fue que armó una coalición detrás de una persona (Macri) sin un programa de gobierno ni económico y eso fracasó. El radicalismo aceptó encerrarse en una coalición armada solamente para ganarle al peronismo. Nunca acepté la estrategia de Marcos Peña y Duran Barba de profundizar la grieta durante esos años, además de que la UCR pudo hacer pocos aportes.
Las buenas ideas no siempre la tienen las mayorías. Hay pequeñas minorías que tienen grandes ideas”
–¿Entonces es posible que la UCR continúe en Cambiemos?
Para las elecciones falta mucho y falta poco. Cada fuerza política debe hacer una autocrítica. Lo he escuchado a Emilio Monzó proponiendo lo que estoy diciendo. No se ha respetado al radicalismo, su territorialidad, su experiencia política. Uno aprende cuando tropieza y se levanta, cuando ha cometido errores. La adversidad nos forja en la política. Por eso yo no puedo pregonar el diálogo y decir “con este no me junto”. Encerrarse en la ideología es producto de la haraganería de no intentar formar un espacio en común.
–Mencionaste a Alfonsín. ¿Cree que uno de los problemas del radicalismo es la falta de liderazgos?
Se necesitan programas de gobierno. Los liderazgos después aparecen. Un líder sin programa no sirve para nada. Los liderazgos tampoco se imponen, se construyen con amplitud de entendimientos. Hoy el radicalismo no tiene un liderazgo único pero con el tiempo va a aparecer, pero no es un tema que nos tiene que preocupar. El radicalismo tiene que construir la fórmula para terminar con 70 años de atraso.
Encerrarse en la ideología es producto de la haraganería de no intentar formar un espacio en común”
–¿Qué opinión tiene de las marchas que se vienen realizando en todo el país- y en La Pampa- en contra del gobierno y la cuarentena?
Nosotros no las hemos impulsado. Adhiero a que sean espontáneas y no utilizadas políticamente. En La Pampa nosotros no hemos convocado ni hemos participado más allá de algún dirigente a título personal. El radicalismo no estuvo al servicio de convocar a las marchas. Por otro lado, hay que respetar el derecho a la expresión. Creo que el gobierno debería tomar nota de los reclamos de estas marchas. Hubo marchas del sector comercio, contra medidas del gobierno provincial, contra la reforma judicial, anticuarentenas; creo que se debería tomar nota y no desmerecer a quienes se manifiestan.
–Usted impulsó un pedido al Poder Ejecutivo para que se informe sobre la violencia policial en La Pampa ¿Se fue conforme de la visita de los representantes del Ministerio de Seguridad y Derechos Humanos a la Legislatura?
Hubo aspectos positivos y negativos. Positivos porque fueron los ministros de Seguridad y Derechos Humanos a la Cámara ha pedido de la oposición. Lo negativo es que no haya habido posibilidad de repreguntar. La responsabilidad es de la presidenta de la comisión que no le dio el tiempo suficiente que requería el tema, como las vulneraciones a los derechos humanos por parte de la policía durante la cuarentena. Además, el subsecretario de Derechos Humanos –ante el pedido de información más precisa- nos dijo que teníamos que presentar un proyecto en la Cámara. Por eso entiendo que es la negación al Pacto de San José de Costa Rica, que establece el acceso a la información pública.
–¿Cuál es su crítica exactamente?
La oposición se vio restringido a su derecho a la información que es un derecho humano. Durante el periodo anterior no hubo información sobre abusos policiales en La Pampa. El periodo de Verna fue un periodo de secretismo y ocultamiento, donde como oposición presentamos 102 pedidos de informe y sólo 9 fueron aprobados por la cámara y 2 respondidos por el Poder Ejecutivo. El Estado tiene la obligación de responder y brindar información a cualquier ciudadano argentino, porque es un derecho humano ligado a la libertad de expresión.
El radicalismo tiene que construir la fórmula para terminar con 70 años de atraso”
¿Cree que en La Pampa se ejerció violencia institucional durante la cuarentena?
La violencia policial no es un tema de la cuarentena. Es un problema estructural que se agudizo. De hecho los números lo demuestran. Nosotros aprobamos en la Cámara un repudio a la violencia institucional. En ese repudio surgió que es un problema de larga data. La violencia institucional se lleva a cabo con los más jóvenes y vulnerables. Es algo que el Comité de Lucha Contra la Tortura (ONU) le viene marcando a la Argentina.
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299 thoughts on “Francisco Torroba: “Hoy quien esté dispuesto a dialogar es un valiente””
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